Mark Interviews 1980+

Mark Hamill

Whenever spacemen of the 20th century are discussed, Luke Skywalker will be prominently mentioned among them. No less famous is the actor who portrays the youthful star warrior of the spectacular STAR WARS saga, Mark Hamill.

The 31-year-old performer was born in Oakland, California, one in a family of seven children. Because his father was a U.S. Navy Captain, Hamill's childhood was one of continual relocation, both in the States and overseas. He completed his formal education with two years of study as theatre arts major at Los Angeles City College.

Since his 1970 debut on The Bill Cosby Show, the 5'9'', 130lb. actor has appeared in numerous TV series including General Hospital and The Texas Wheelers. In addition to starring in such theatrical releases as Corvette Summer, The Big Red One and The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia, he has been featured in a variety of TV movies including Sarah T.: Portrait Of A Teenage Alcoholic, Eric and The City.

It was, however, Hamill's portrayal of the young star soldier drawn to the Force that has earned him international stardom. As the pivotal figure in the central trilogy of George Lucas' nine-part science-fiction epic, he has not only won the hearts of audiences around the world, but found a place in cinematic history as well.

Much like his character in STAR WARS, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, Hamill is spirited, sensitive and straightforward. Currently, he is appearing on stage as Mozart in the production of Amadeus, another aspect of his theatrical career which also includes the lead role in the Broadway play The Elephant Man. He was interviewed by Preview in his Manhattan home.

How much of Luke Skywalker is Mark Hamill?

I can answer that much better now than I could during the previous two films. I remember the first time I went to the Lucasfilm offices. I took a ten-page screen for STAR WARS, got the part, but still hadn't seen the whole script. So, I said, 'I'm one of the actors, I'm here to pick up my script.' And Charly Lippincott or one of his assistants said, 'Which part?' I looked kind of lost, and said, 'Gee, uh -- I forgot!' They both smiled and said, 'Luke!' I believe the greenhorn aspect, that kind of vacant farmboy look was my contribution, probably more than I'd care admit to. We never see ourselves that way, of course. We say, 'I'm gonna be really cool!' I probably had a little more savvy than Luke and a much better sense of humor. I kept asking George if I could acknowledge the robots' wisecracks. Or even some of Han Solo's lines.

Then there were conflicts between Hamill and Skywalker?

All the time. Still, I gave in. 'This may not make me comfortable, but I must go with the story, and the fact that Luke is from Nowhere Plains, Kansas.' As good a pilot as Luke is, for example, he doesn't have the experience Han Solo has, someone who's always one step ahead of the law. I remember Billy DeeWilliams had a bad time on his first day. He had so much film experience that he just couldn't understand why Lando would not do a certain thing. Eventually, he learned the story is all beats and rhythms. We could almost feel the editing, the fat being trimmed at the beginning and the end of each scene, the four lines of dialogue that gets us into it, and the exit lines.

Interesting, because the director, Richard Marquand, said that, 'Mark knows more about STAR WARS than anyone else except George Lucas. He said you corrected him when he'd stray.

Well, Richard was being kind; he really did his homework. Sure, at times, I can tell what George will object to.

What was your impression the first time you saw Ralph McQuarrie's paintings for STAR WARS?

I said, 'If it can look anything like those, we've got a winner.' George always called STAR WARS the 'most expensive low-budget movie ever made.' It was budgeted around $6 million, but it ended up at $9,5 million -- and every cent was up on that screen. It looked like it cost more than it did, actually less than The Deep and All the President's Men did about the same time. People say All the President's Men only had desks and typewriters, but they forget it had Dustin Hoffman and Robert Redford, who got a sizable chunk of the budget. Even Tootsie, wasn't that $15 or $20 mil? Amazing. It's so expensive to make movies these days.

How was Jedi brought in at $32,5 million?

We went back to that smash-and-grab technique, which was also used for Raiders. The energy generated when you get that kind of rhythm going is terrific. They say, 'Okay, we can't spend all day on this! Do another take, and if we can't get it, let's move on!' Rather than slapdash, the technique creates its own momentum. That kinetic energy made STAR WARS. The pace on Empire was more leisurely. Also, Yoda and the technical problems slowed it down. We were over-schedule almost six weeks, which added a lot to the budget. George was very unhappy. With Jedi, he felt we should return to the STAR WARS style. Just go, go, go!

When did you find the heart of Luke Skywalker, really know the character was yours?

I really can't say there was a moment. In the first film, Luke was one way. After a three-year time-lapse, he matured a bit. Then, in the third, he was different again. I finally had something to add to Luke because I'd lived in his world for the past seven years. Primarily I let Luke's character be shaped by his situation. For example, there was real solitude during the Dagobah sequences - over four months when I was the only human on the call sheet. Everything else was puppets, robots and snakes -- and a lot of swamp. That shapes a character. Still, I knew playing Luke would not get me recognised as a good actor. Like, I thought Sigourney Weaver would get an Oscar nomination for Alien. But George said, 'Don't be stupid, not with a monster in it, kid.' He was right!

Was it satisfying to evolve personally with Luke over the years?

Yeah, it was. In STAR WARS, he was typified by a sloppy costume and moppy hair, a callow kid. In Empire, he leaves home and realises it's not as easy as when he lived with his folks -- he's growing up, caught in a downbeat kind of darkness, and really getting the stuffing kicked out of him. In Jedi, he matures and vindicates his actions.

Looking back over the three films, what would you play differently if you could do it over again?

I always felt it was a mistake not to have tears in STAR WARS when I discover my aunt and uncle dead. I gave George a take with tears, but he was against using it. He said, 'Do a take for yourself, then, do one for me. In mine, you're in a state of shock, driving over the horizon when you see the farm smoking. But, you knew your folks were dead when you were still with Kenobi.' I said, 'George, the audience will not realise that. They'll just see my reaction when I find the bodies.' George used the take he liked, but I had a feeling some audiences thought, 'Ah, here's the music, he steps in the frame, let's see the tears well up --' and they're not there. He couldn't cut it. Harrison has more freedom to bring bits to Solo; there's no question that he's added much to his role. When the story gets a little too arch, too corny or old-fashioned, Harrison will express exasperation or skepticism. He represents a portion of the audience that's too sophisticated to see the story from a young person's viewpoint.

It's pecular that you would point out Solo's lines, because this trilogy is really pivotal to Luke. He is the only character that really changes.

Harrison and I have talked about that, and I always say, 'God, I would love to loosen up a bit.' It's difficult for me to separate my admiration for the character of Han Solo and for Harrison Ford as an actor. Maybe, because in our relationship, it's very easy for me to look up to him. That's part of George's genius: casting actors who are close to their characters, so they won't have to undergo major overhauls. He won't hire an actor who has very strong ideas that are counter to his own. With me, Harrison has always been very strong and supportive [doing a Ford imitation), 'Hey kid, your part's much harder than mine.' He's very gracious this way. But George has very definite ideas about Luke. He knows what purpose Luke serves in the script. I remember giving George a copy of The Guide To Extraterrestrials as a gift, with the inscription, "Pick out a girlfriend for me." Though it was tongue-in-cheek, I was really hot to bump into Nastassia Kinski or Debbie Harry on the Planet of the Butch Women.

Roger Corman, are you listening?

I realize now that idea is not right. From an adolescent viewpoint, that would be mushy stuff. Luke's got a mission, and a romance would dilute his forward line through the story.

Does your performance level increase with the number of takes, or do you put it all in the first one?

We try not to have too many takes, so I do the best I can on every one.

Do you give different readings on different takes?

Yes, because there are different ways a line will play. If the director gives an instruction, I'll try to accommodate him. Usually, everything is in the script. I begin to prepare by talking in very broad terms about the story, without zeroing in on my character. I ask questions, get the director's feelings so we know we're headed in the same direction. When we're actually on the set, it's too late for discussion. Time is a factor, too. In a movie with robot actors and exploding squibs, they say, 'We can get three takes before lunch.' That's it, there's not a moment for discussion. Effects movies like these require so much preparation and long delays. You know, after a take they must set-up and rewire the scene again. So, there's 45 minutes to an hour you can use to study -- or to sleep. But actors cover themselves; they really have to, especially in action films. I remember on Empire, during the Dagobah scenes, Irv Kershner was across the lake with a bullhorn, doing long shots, though some cameras brought me in tight. I yelled, 'Hey, Kersh! Was that all right, was it okay to give Yoda that sort of skeptical look, like he was some kind of horny toad!' He called back, 'Forgive me, Mark. I was watching the smoke!' I said, 'What the ---' You see, he was watching the background stuff to see if it was working. Kersh loved to create painting-like establishment shots. It made me laugh then because I thought, 'My god, I should be such a battle-scarred veteran of this kind of film, I should know he's looking at snakes and smoke. He's assuming I'm doing the right thing.' It would be a mistake to say, 'Oh, poor Mark! They're not paying attention to my performance.' The secret of being a film actor: cover your own ass.

How did the three directors differ in their handling of actors?

All three directors got what they wanted from us in their own special ways. Richard Marquand, having been an actor, knows what we want to hear, and told us in a way we could understand. George has a casual attitude that can throw an actor. You're really sweating bullets, wrenching your guts and George will go [imitating Lucas' voice], 'Oh, uh -- that was good. That was good.' That's the equivalent of someone else saying 'Faaaaabulous! I love it! I love it!' That's George's way. He's a quiet person, sort of to himself. Still, I was really in awe of George. I'd love to work with him again as a director, knowing him the way I do now. With Kersh, you can see the gears turning; he's a really complex person who has so much going on, sometimes we'd have to grab him and make him look us in the eyes. He's nodding, 'Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!' but not really listening. When he did listen, he'd give you the same sort of concentration he had on a billion other things. I had to go back to the theatrical stage just for my own sanity, to remember, 'Oh, yeah, this is was actors do.' Film is a composite art -- a hundred people working on different areas to complete a single vision. The actor is important only up to a point, then the work goes into other people's hands.

How do you get in shape for the STAR WARS films?

I didn't do anything for STAR WARS. For Empire, they had me take Kendo, Japanese swordplay. I took Karate, and did a little weightlifting, just to tone up my muscles - nobody ever takes their shirt off in these movies. And, I took fencing from Bob Anderson, a superb athlete who trained a team for the Olympics. It takes an expert to make an amateur look good. He doubled for David Prowse in the lightsaber dueling scenes - imagine fencing with the added burden of wearing a mask you can't see out of.

Did the swashbuckling scenes fulfill a childhood fantasy --- Mark Hamill as Robin Hood or Sinbad?

Oh, yeah. It's like every dream I ever had come true. I couldn't believe it when I read the script, I thought, 'I get to do this! I get to swing across a pit with a princess under my arm! Thank you, whoever gave me this part!'

You played that scene when you were seven-years-old?

Absolutely - falling out of a tree, of course. Zorro, Treasure Island, Kong --- I loved them all!

Were you athletic as a boy?

I did well in sports that didn't have cheerleaders. I wrestled, did gymnastics, was on the swim team for a while. I was fairly athletic, but not in organized sports; more just a neighborhood baseball player. My father was in the navy, so we moved around every couple of years. It was a good background for an actor, but it can be very schizophrenic. After two years in one place, you move on, thinking, 'Now, let me analyze why I wasn't popular in school. I'll improve on it, and be totally different.' Someone at one school might tell you, 'Mark wasn't a hood, but he hung out with the greasers, and made them laugh.' And at another school, 'He was a preppie type, ran for student body commissioner.'

In school, you were many Mark Hamills.

I was.

Popular and unpopular?

Absolutely. I ran the gamut. In Japan, I went to Yokohama High, something like 500 people in the whole school. I was used to 2500. But, that's where I did some writing and drawing for their humor magazine, and a video film with the football team -- you know, the Stan Freberg, Monty Python and Mad Magazine influences. Everybody knew everybody else because we lived on one of two Naval bases. Almost inadvertently, I became popular. Real popular! In the stateside schools, I had to play a role -- belong to this crowd or that crowd. If you were seen talking to some guy in the chess club who was considered not cool, it could wreck your career. In Japan, it was different.

How old were you then?

About 15 to 17.

Was it a critical period in your life?

About as much as anyone at that age. The worst part was leaving the security of friends, uprooting and moving to another school. I remember my first girlfriend, Trudy Stavanski. Six days before I had to move away, we first made out. I thought, 'This is going to ruin me, foerver! I can't leave; I'm just starting to fall in love --'. I lived in Pittsburgh, Brooklyn, San Diego, Annandale, San Jose, Williamsburg -- coast to coast to coast. I like them all, but I never wanted to leave New York. Get on the subway, go to the World's Fair, great magazine stands, everything so close by. The hairiest time for me was the '60s -- long hair and fights with my father, mostly. He was really disappointed that I didn't go into the service. But, no stories like being chained to my bed or scalded with hot water or anything.

Didn't moving frequently put more pressure on you to be an achiever?

I guess. But there were times when all I wanted to do was sit in the back row at school and hope nobody noticed me, rather than making a spectacle of myself by screwing up.

Is it really true that if you weren't an actor, you'd be a cartoonist?

I've loved illustration and film animation for as long as I can remember. I was from a household where comic books were forbidden -- except for long car trips. I have vague recollections of tattered EC comics my older brother's friends had, the early Mad stuff - Harvey Kurtzmann, Will Elder, Wally Wood. Yeah, I thought I'd be an artist, but I just didn't have it. I still draw for fun, though.

What did you like the most as a kid?

Movies, puppets, magic. I wasn't really good at magic, but it fascinated me, and I read all the magic biographies. And gangster stories -- Ma Baker, Bonnie and Clyde, Machine Gun Kelly, The Untouchables. Couldn't get enough of Al Capone. I remember one devastating Saturday double-bill: West Side Story and Whatever happened to Baby Jane? It wrenched me one way, then kicked my butt the other. When I came home, my parents thought I had been molested or something. I was a complete shambles. I wasn't into musicals, and it was the first time one of them made sense to me. I lived in New York, and it really made an impression. I cried. It was the most overwhelming thing I'd ever seen. Went to the lobby to freshen up, got a cherry coke, another box of popcorn and staggered back to see Whatever happened to Baby Jane? Another enormous mindblower - at the age of 10! Yeah, I was a movie fanatic. I'd set the alarm clock to get up and watch Monster Chiller Theatre with Count Floyd.

The seeds of your acting career.

I think so. My folks would say, 'Why do you waste time in a dark movie theater all day long? You're a healthy boy; you should be out playing baseball.' I never told them, but I always wanted to say, 'It's homework!' If I had, I would've been, 'Well, here's Mr. Cary Grant!' I don't think I would have gotten into drama if I hadn't done that high school parody.

Have you ever used the Force -- that special way of psyching yourself up -- as an actor?

Oh, sure. But it's tricky.

Do you believe in God?

I believe in a higher power, but I don't know about organized religion, I'm searching.

What about luck?

I guess so. I'm fatalistic; I feel that certain things are preordained.

Then you don't think man can change his fate?

Not really, but I don't know. I change my mind frequently.

Have you discussed the religious implications of the Force with George?

No, I haven't. Does that surprise you?

Yes, because it's at the core of the STAR WARS drama. I thought it would come up in conversation, 'George, what did you have in mind when you thought of that word?'

Well, I did say that. I asked him about the origin of the idea, and he said it's in about 450 old science fiction novels. He's the first to admit it's not an original concept. It's nice how George presented the idea so everyone can get as much or as little out of it as they want. Some people see it as a very religious thing. Personally, I believe there is a spiritual aspect in all of us. But, heaven, hell and an afterlife is really puzzling to me.

Did George tell you the complete nine-part STAR WARS saga?

No. I did ask what happened to my parents during STAR WARS. If I remember, he gave me a really detailed answer which turned out to be completely different when I got the Empire script. Now that I've finished Jedi, I can see now, in essence, he was right. He told there was a great duel between Vader and Obi-Wan, and that Vader had fallen into a volcanic pit and was hideously burned beyond recognition. He satisfied what I needed as an actor to do the scene. But, I always wondered if it was true that he really had all nine parts written out, whether it was sketchy or well-developed. Supposedly, he has an outline of them all.

He can still make changes as he sees fit. Did Jedi track up with your speculation?

It surprised me because it seems so obvious. I think audiences will be disappointed if they approach Jedi as a whodunnit, because there are no revelations on the order of Vader being my father. That's the shocker of all three parts. I fell into the trap of becoming so involved with it, I forgot the films are intended for children, which is one of the reasons there's no way I could have turned to the Dark Side and become a villain. I really don't know what happens in the trilogy after this one. I will say that George had discussed the possibility of me doing a role in the final trilogy, not unlike Guiness's. Of course, in the STAR WARS universe, anyone can come back as a blue screen optical. Did you realize tha Alec Guiness did his entire Empire Strikes Back part in a half day -- finished by noontime? I had lunch with him at an Italian restaurant, and he confessed he'd probably make more money from Empire than he has on all his other movies.

It must have been gratifying to work with Guiness.

It was. One of my favorite memories involves Jack Purvis, one of the little people who played several characters -- the head Jawa, a couple of robots -- in STAR WARS. He was a member of a cabaret act with Kenny Baker, who plays R2-D2. Jack is a joker, always putting me on -- a quick wit, a put-down artist, a miniature Don Rickles. As soon as Guiness arrived in Tunisia, Jack was in awe like everyone else. He told us how he went all over London on a bus to see Guiness's movies. I said, 'Have you met him? He's a wonderful man.' Jack said [imitates a Cockney accent], 'Oh, yeah, 'e's tremendous. I got on the plane on the way to Tunisia, and 'e got on right after me, spoke to me straight away, said, 'Get the hell out of my way.' He really sucked us into it. A couple of weeks later, I was having dinner with Guiness, and told him that story. He sort of laughed, and said [imitates Guiness], 'Tell me, which little person is he?' I pointed him out. Guiness looked over and saw him holding court -- making jokes, doing bits with knives, forks, spoons and glasses. He just stroked his beard, nodded, and filed it away. Several weeks later, I had forgotten all about it. We were in the desert, a 360 degree horizon - not a rock or a bush in sight, nothing but desolation, completely flat. Jack was having a lot of fun with us because we had to wait for our chairs to be unloaded off the truck -- you know, the chairs with our names on them. Jack, however, had this big, flat rock with his name written on it in adhesive tape. He took it wherever we went. No matter what location we were on -- in the mountains, in the desert --- he was always there with his shirt off, sunglasses and suntan lotion, saying [cockney accent again], 'Oh, haven't your chairs arrived yet?' Always with this rock. One day, Jack was sitting on the rock by himself, nothing but desolation. Guiness is in his Jedi robe, being very into himself, meditating. Then, I noticed him walking toward Jack and thought, 'Ah, this must be it.' Now, I'll tell you the story from Jack's viewpoint. He said [more Cockney accent], 'I was sitting alone, minding me own business, and I look up, and I see Sir Alec coming towards me. And I said, 'Oh, that's nice, 'e's going over his lines.' But 'e kept getting closer and closer, coming right at me, and there's nothing but desolation all around, all around, all around. Pretty soon, 'e was right on top of me; 'e pulled his hood back, and, in this great Fagin-like voice, said, 'GET OUT OF MY WAY!' Now, I was standing about 50 yards away. Jack went absolutely pale. It was the only time I saw him at a loss for words. He was nearly in tears, and we were falling over with laughter. Later, Guiness reassured him, and they became friends.

What happened during the aborted sandstorm sequence on the first day of shooting?

It was one of the most uncomfortable situations I've ever been in. Instead of sand, Fuller's Earth was used - a sort of chalky, dusty theatrical product for creating everything from slime to dirtying the set. They threw the stuff in front of the wind machines, and it got in our lungs, into every orifice in our bodies. You wouldn't believe it - take a shower, and torrents of brown water spirals down the drain. It got in our eyes, ears, noses. We couldn't see; it was hard to breathe, really bad. I'm not exactly sure why they decided to take the scene out, either. In Empire, act one ended with the snow battle. Maybe they thought the sandstorm was too tense for the same purpose.

Was the sand worse than the snow in Empire?

Oh, yeah. Between takes in the snow we could bundle up or go into a survival hut. That was pretty awful, too.

Have you been hurt portraying Luke in the three films?

Strangely enough, on the day my son, Nathan, was born, I'd been up all night. Gary Kurtz [SW Producer] called me. Although I was told I could have the day after the birth off, he asked me to do one final blue screen shot - jumping out of the way of the Walker's leg, which comes down to smash a snowspeeder. Against my better judgement, I went in. I did the jump two, three, four times, and on one of the takes, I caught my thumb, sprained it. It didn't seem all that bad, but it got worse. By the end of the week, I couldn't hold my lightsabre, and we were coming to the climactic duel which took eight weeks of shooting -- not eight weeks straight, but two here, three there. I couldn't even hold the sabre. Even now, when my thumb gets into a certain position, I can feel the strain. The accident shut down production for a couple of days. During STAR WARS, I burst a blood vessel in my eye while wrestling with a trash-can type monster. I was trying to make my face red, like I was really being strangled. I did it with such intensity that I burst a vessel. Actors are like that; we try to be realistic. Empire was a masochist's dream, ten hours of torture a day -- like all the debris thrown at me when the windows broke. My wife, Marilou, took polaroids of my bruises, just so she'd have photographic proof of what was going on. I'd come home with my thigh looking like a road map of New Jersey. Unbelievable greens, blues and oranges. Stunts are another matter. Here, you can get an honorary belt buckle at the drop of a hat. In England, you really have to prove yourself. By the time I finished Empire, I was made an honorary member of the British Stunt Union. I was proud of that.

Have you ever said to your stunt double, 'Let me try this one, so my face will be on camera'?

Actually, my double did one stunt in Empire -- the flip out the Cloud City window through the shattered glass. He did a running jump and a flip in the air that was tremendous, but I think it was cut so that you couldn't see the flip. Peter Diamond, the stuntman, told me that he thought I could do it, but the insurance company wouldn't let me. I was amazed that the sequence where I fall through the innards of the carbon freezing chamber was cut so much. My favorite scene was also missing, where I jumped off a ledge. The action required me to make a six-foot leap, and land on a small platform below. Of course, there were boxes and mattresses and stuntmen with their arms outstretched in case I blew it. I jumped out toward the camera - it was clearly me - grabbed onto a bar about waist level, stiff-armed it, and rotated 360 degrees, then dropped past the camera onto the mattresses -- a real piece of Errol-Flynn-type derring-do. The stunt got applause on the set, but it's not in the movie. The scene was condensed to emphasize the massive size of the carbon freezing chamber, and to shorten the film.

Harrison Ford told us one of his real acting achievements is pretending he's not in pain.

I know what he means. With me, it's acting as if I were not terrified. In Empire, they were thinking of putting a real alligator, dressed up with styrofoam horns and whatnot, in the water with me. Or imagine, playing a scene, hitting the mark, glancing up, seeing a snake - and trying not to think about it. In this case, the snake was an anaconda -- 22 feet long -- and not too happy about working that morning. Actually, the big snakes weren't the worst; one little snake was. I'd gotten much better with reptiles, to the point where I could hold them, put them in my lap, and stroke them until I could feel their stomach muscles relax. But, I had a real setback with a snake that was shedding his skin, and secreting a milky fluid that blinded him. I was supposed to pull him out of the engine of my X-Wing as I'm preparing to leave for Cloud City. He got fed up at about the tenth take. They say you should grasp a snake about 18 inches behind its head so it can twist around and let the audience know it's not rubber. But, the idea of a serpent reeling back and snapping at you -- this one drew blood.

Where did he bite you?

The little finger of my right hand. It really freaked me out. I didn't like the feeling of picking up a serpent, and having it flinch every time I touched him. I could handle him, thinking, 'Well, he's more scared than I am,' But, when he got fed up, boy, he got fed up! He bit me, and I panicked, but I put him down rather than throw him -- he was a living creature -- and ruined a take. I felt most distinctly unheroic, because I was yelling, 'HE BIT ME!!! OH, MY GOD! HE BIT ME!!!' And everyone's saying, 'Hey, come on! Relax, he's blind! He has no teeth! You're embarrassing all of us.' Visitors on the set were hiding their eyes, not knowing where to look.

Why didn't they use another snake?

I guess they had to match it to other footage.

Probably a member of the Snake Union.

Yeah. All the reptiles would have walked.

Crawled?

Crawled!

What was the most difficult action you've performed in the STAR WARS trilogy?

The sword duel in Empire and the confrontation with Vader in Jedi. As a full-fledged, card-carrying Jedi, I'm supposed to fight with extraordinary skill, and get the upper hand with Vader. Empire was worse -- in the carbon freezing chamber. We were on a platform -- about 20 feet high -- that could only be reached with ladders. Steam was used to indicate cold. Instead of a refrigerated set, it was like swordfighting in a sauna bath. It was really, really, really hot. And tempers were very, very short. Look closely at Empire; we're drenched with sweat in the freezing chamber because we had to do the scene over and over from every angle. By the end of the day, we were ready to be poured into a car.

What was your most difficult dramatic scene?

The final resolution to the conflict between Vader and I, which surprisingly is not action fireworks as much as two characters confronting each other. Like I say, George retreats from raw emotion. He sees it as more stylized, so theaudience can read their own feelings into it -- not communicating with their fathers or saying things they wish they'd said.

Was the ending shot in different ways?

Yes, but with George sitting behind the director. I was pleasing two people. I wasn't told to play it differently, but, in the course of shooting, I delivered a variety of readings. In one version, I kept everything in check, letting it all happen behind the eyes. In others, I was more open with it. The choice was up to them.

Is it frustrating to put your work in the hands of others, knowing most audiences will blame you if the performance misses the mark?

No one can really know what an actor goes through, because if he's done his job well, it doesn't look like he's doing anything! In many ways, acting in this type of film is rougher than any other. Viewers don't really understand the technical difficulties involved because these films are directors' pictures. The most frustrating thing is not being considered an actor as much as a prop in a menagerie of strange characters. In one respect, it's made us stars, but it hasn't done much for our images as actors. Harrison seems to have broken through, but still has not received the recognition he deserves as an actor. Still, I'm very optimistic about my own future, but it won't change overnight. I've got a good theatrical reputation for being reliable, not missing performances, having some stage training and a presence. I have a feeling something good will happen for me in the theatre. After nearly 13 years in the business, I'm beginning to reach a new plateau, where I'll be considered for interesting parts. I'm leaving that awkward age: too old to play juveniles and not old enough to play grown men.

You must get -- and reject -- many script offers similar to that of your STAR WARS role.

Absolutely. I'm afraid if I do the same part again, it will just further an opinion people have now. I'd much rather hold out for something more off-the-wall, something unexpected.

Marquand said the most terrible thing about working in the STAR WARS films was directing the robots because they frequently refused to function. How was your relationship with them?

I have an affection for the robots. Tony Daniels brings 3PO so much to life, you know he would much rather be at a cocktail party serving hors d'oeuvres than in hyperspace. R2 is a little tricky, because he's not complete until the sound and the special effects make him work. Still, I've invested in him a personality that's recognizable, like a pet dog -- loyal, cute.

As part of your acting approach?

Absolutely. I also write out what I imagine his dialogue is, checking with the director to make sure we're thinking along the same lines. I compare R2's dialogue -- especially when I'm alone with him -- to a Bob Newhart phone call routine. I obviously have to carry on my side of the conversation while supplying what he's saying to the audience, 'What's that, Mrs. Fenniman? You say you just signaled for a left turn?' There are many variations to be used without becoming obvious it's a one-sided conversation.

How about when the robots' parts fall off?

There's nothing worse than some complicated shot that's working perfectly until some gizmo pops or a compressed air hose detaches and R2 stops moving. It's the supreme test of endurance and patience because the times he worked were far less than when he didn't. We assumed he was going to mess up. When he didn't, it was a great thrill for us all. That's why there are so many inserts of him; he doesn't work with a lot of people in the scene.

Did they smooth him out as the films progressed?

Oh, yeah. He improved 100 percent in Empire; the metamorphosis he's gone through is really amazing. Originally, he could do almost nothing. Now, he is a very remarkable, little machine.

Where there practical jokes played with robots?

I remember on Empire talking to Kenny Baker in the shell. I said, 'Kenny,' and he turned to me and nodded. I said, 'If we don't get this shot before lunch-time, we'll be here through the afternoon and probably slop over into tomorrow.' I was complaining, going on and on, and as I'm talking, I look across the set to see Kenny about 30 yards away, asleep in a chair -- and two special effects guys with a remote control unit, laughing their butts off. I must have been talking to myself for a good 20 minutes! After a while, you don't know who or what is real anymore, you sort of wear the frustration as a badge of courage. It balances. One of my fantasies was fulfilled in Jedi. I got picked up like Fay Wray in King Kong --- really a big rubber monster hand on the end of a crane. The creature is called a Rancor, and it's in Jabba's palace, beneath a pit. Victims are thrown in for the amusement of the court. The thing is, when you're waiting for a set-up, just lying there in a big rubber hand, you do feel foolish. But, when the cameras are turning, and you've got to put across the intensity of the moment, you forget about being on a cable and struggling with three giant fingers and a thumb. I loved it.

Working with Yoda must be easier than working with the robots, because you know Frank Oz is just an arm's length away.
It wasn't as easy as you might think -- especially in Empire. When my close-ups were being shot, they replaced him with a stick, with a piece of tape on it that said, 'Yoda'. In every shot of me by myself, Yoda was in the shop being worked on, because his eyes would go funny or his ear cables wouldn't work. He was a real problem, but he got better. We made Empire while The Muppet Show was on strike, so I begged Frank to bring Miss Piggy over to surprise the crew. I'd forgotten all about it, but one day he said, 'Can you do some off-camera lines after lunch?' It was a scene in Yoda's house where he's telling me I'm too impatient, too rash. And I say, 'I follow my feelings.', and he had this big black velvet bag over his arm, down in the pit. As soon as I said the line, 'I follow my feelings,' up pops Miss Piggy with, 'Feelings? You want to know feelings? Come over to the couch, I'll show you feelings, punk!' On the spur of the moment, we began singing, 'Feelings, nothing more than feelings.' She looked around the set, and said, 'I've been booked in some real shit holes, but I'm going to get on my agent for this one!' That star personality -- the lavender dress, tiara, gloves -- was so out of context in the drabness, everyone except Gary Kurtz and Irv Kershner fell apart laughing. They were looking at the clock. It was a wonderful moment.

I know making STAR WARS was hard work, but Marquand said the outtakes would make the funniest movie in this galaxy.

Yeah, people blow their lines, monsters fall down. But, George isn't overly fond of outtakes. So, if there are any, I haven't seen them.

Where there any residual surprises from the STAR WARS films?

Meeting Princess Margaret after she saw Empire. She said [British accent], 'Oh, the vastness of space. Don't you think that jolly little tin man could have done a musical number? And tell me, is that horrid man in black really your father?' Honest, those words exactly. We were instructed to say nothing to her that required an answer. If she said she liked the film, we were supposed to say, 'Thank you,' not, 'What was your favorite part?'.

What did you say?

I sort of said, 'Yes, of course.' I wasn't entirely convinced that she liked it. I was hoping that Andrew or one of the boys could have been there.

Too bad Jack the midget wasn't there.

Purvis, yeah. Probably would have caused an international incident.

What are the differences between you and Ford as actors?

He's a very funny guy, although he appears so serious in films.

Funny?

Yeah, witty and spontaneous. I think he'd be a great director, because he naturally understands the direction a scene should go in. Harrison has probably made more changes in his lines. He's good at turning phrases and making them his own.

Do you rely more on the director instead of working a scene out yourself?

I do both. I'd never change a line without checking with the director. Harrison says that's my major downfall, because if an actor points out a change, ten to one he'll be told, "No stick with the original." Harrison plays his changes as if they were in the script, and often no one notices. I admire him for that.

Isn't that risky, maybe insulting if the director is sensitive about changes?

The writer probably, who in case would be George. But Harrison's ideas are usually superb. You know, he improvised shooting that thug in Raiders, which is one of the highpoints of the movie. In Star Wars, he improvised a line while we were escaping from the Death Star. When I shoot a guard and say,"I got him! I got him!," he says "Great kid, don't get cocky!," It was wonderful, so much in character for Solo.

What do you do when you can't say a line because it's simply too difficult?

Generally, fix it before I get to the camera by reading it out loud. They don't mind an adjustment as long as it has the same meaning. There was a line in STAR WARS where I tell 3PO that we can't go out after dark to look after R2. "There are things that are said to be fearsome and loathesome." Something like that.

A tongue twister.

Yeah, that one took a little work.

What was the most touching scene in Jedi for you?

Coming to terms with Vader, resolving that conflict once and for all. I also like the Ewoks who have a nice contrast between the high technology of the Empire with their somewhat medieval background. It's not really a specific scene as much as an idea- one that, I think, appeals to George and someone like me who is 5'9". Size has no meaning, because the smallest creatures prove to be the Empire's downfall. Again, it's appealing to young people.

If you could shoot anything over in Jedi, what would it be?

I always feel I could do everything better if I had more time, more chances. Hindsight can be dangerous, though. For instance, I have no STAR WARS memorabilia or posters on the walls of my home. I wouldn't even have a copy of the film on videotape if it weren't for my son. When it plays, I have to leave the room. It's like looking at your old high school yearbook. You can't believe you actually looked and sounded like that.

Even though it's painful, how do you handle viewing your films?
I'll watch them once, get over the initial shock, then one more time with some objectivity. I don't see them again, which is why I haven't seen Star Wars and Empire in ages.

Do you view dailies, the raw footage shot the previous day?

I did on Sam Fuller's Big Red One, but George prefers not to have the actors watch dailies, which is okay with me. Once you've commited a scene to film, there's no point to worrying about it. When you see dailies, you tend to want to give advice on how to edit them.

Couldn't it also make an actor too self-conscious and lead to an unnatural performance?

Sure. It's like hearing your voice on a tape recording; you're convinced that it's not you. Film is similar, but to the tenth power - you see it and hear it. It's overwhelming until you get used to it. Most times, I can divorce from it, like watching in third person.

What is your strongest acting quality?

I was very good at farce, character parts and dialects in school - which is not what I've played in the real world. My sincerity is there for Luke, which is the most important thing. But, it's not really an actorish role, that's why a lot of people don't think I'm acting, they feel I'm just being myself. To an extent, they may be right. I have a lot to learn; it's a great adjustment from the stage to film.

What do you think is your weakest acting quality?

In terms of physical appearance, I wish I had more of an ethnic look, more street persona. I think that would bring me a wider range of roles. My weakness is being waspy at a time when that's not in vogue. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping to reach a point where I can find a role that will not only stretch my abilities, but the perception people have of me. Unless an actor is a big boxoffice draw like Pacino or Hoffman, he's really at the mercy of the way people perceive him.

In your professional career, what could you say was your best performance?

A scene in The Big Red One, in the ovens.

And your worst?

It took me the longest time to accept my performance in STAR WARS; I didn't like it at all. A lot of television I did was very bad. I was really awful on Room 222 -- I'd love to buy that one back. But, just my luck, it went into syndication.

Do you have any souvenirs from the STAR WARS films?

I kept my boots from the first film, and the Stormtrooper helmet I wore when I rescued the Princess. Bringing it through customs was funny. They wanted to know what it was. I told them, 'a stormtrooper helmet from the Galactic Empire.' They gave me a very odd look, but passed it through. I didn't keep anything from Jedi, although they made my son costumes for both Empire and Jedi. He wanders around in this Obi-Wan type robe, looking like a midget monk.

Has Luke been as important to you as you've been to him?

It's an experience that I'll always treasure, especially the people I've been associated with at Lucasfilm. It'll be a long time, if ever, that I work with people who are that loving, that much like a family.

Have there been any repercussions from your automobile accident?

Actually, that was seven years ago. I broke my nose on a steering wheel and it was overemphasized in the press. They didn't cover it until after STAR WARS was released. I find it difficult, after all these years, to keep talking about it.

I thought it was more serious, involving plastic surgery.

That came out of one of those scandal tabloids. It got on the wire services, and the next thing, my whole face was re-done. I just smashed my nose pretty good.

Well, you wanted character.

Exactly. Who knows, maybe I'll be up for Peter Lorre parts.

If you could portray any character in any book or remake any movie, what would it be?

Something in Early American literature -- Mark Twain, Nathaniel Hawthorne -- more of a period in our history than a specific character.

Would you do TV?

If the part was good. I'm not snobbish about the medium, or anxious to do a series, but maybe a mini-series because the form works so well. Or something for PBS.

What medium do you prefer the most: stage, film or TV?

Theatre is the most immediately gratifying for the actor. In film, there is so much more you can do than on stage.

And the performance lasts forever.

That can be good or bad. I'd like to be more involved in the decision making, and an actor is much more in control on the stage.

How do you see Mark Hamill 25 years from now?

That's hard to say. I can't see continuing if I'm not really enjoying myself or breaking new ground. I'd very much like to be involved behind the scenes, in the production aspect of films. I directed a bit in college, and found that I don't have to be in front of an audience to get satisfaction. I wrote a script for Texas Wheelers that was optioned, but the show was cancelled. The future is a question mark. One of the reasons I came to New York is to spend time with my family and not be over-concerned with my career. I saved my money, and want to relax a bit, read and travel. I think it can be summed up in that great line, 'I follow my feelings.'

Preview Magazine, 1983