Mark Interviews 1980+

Luke Skywalker is alive and well...

Luke Skywalker is alive and well and just as curious about what happens in Revenge of the Jedi as we are.

Mark Hamill is an odd but happy bundle of contradictions.

He wants the world to know he has a full life apart from his involvement with the STAR WARS trilogy, but he cannot escape, for more than a few moments, his alter ego, Luke Skywalker.

Hamill bemoans the fact that the seemingly endless supply of scripts that arrive for him at his agent's office are in the vein of "Gee, gosh, I just came down from the farm," but his boyish enthusiasm - which manages to conceal a far-ranging intellect - seems to outsiders perfect for just such roles.

His close involvement with George Lucas, progenitor of "the Force" and all it has spawned, would suggest that Hamill is intimately acquainted with all the twists and turns of storylines in the SW galaxy. But he isn't, and in this two-hour interview he continually sought clues from the interviewer to some of the loose threads of the intergalactic saga.

Some hard and fast facts can be reported: Hamill has his life together, being happily married to Marilou York; and their son, Nathan, now 15 months old, is the center of their lives, being as smart, handsome and athletic as the Jedi Knight.

Lack of Publicity

Even the fact that critics and people in the movie industry have overlooked how hard he has to work to make Luke Skywalker come alive no longer bothers him, and he says he will probably eventually deal with the problem of weak scripts by hiring some competent people and having material worked up specially for himself.

But as he sits in his room at New York's Hotel Plaza, Hamill is buoyantly content - he has subscribed to Starlog for years and reads it as soon as it reaches his mailbox, yet his face has never graced the cover... until now.

"What I want to know from you," he says good-naturedly, "is how you can say in your Harrison Ford interview (Starlog #37) that Han Solo became the dominant figure in The Empire Strikes Back? You know that I did that whole Dagobah scene without human actors?"

"I'm only kidding," he quickly adds, noting obvious discomfiture. "At first I was disappointed that I didn't get praise for that sequence, but on second thought, the fact that no one mentioned it seems to me to be the greatest compliment of all. You know the old dictum, that the best special effects are the ones no one notices."

"Well, imagine if someone had said or written, 'He's talking to a manipulated piece of rubber,' or something. But no one did, and that means they believed totally what was being presented... which was very hard work for me. Yoda gave me no lines while we were shooting, and that was only part of the hardship," Hamill points out.

Harder Than It Looks

"At first I had an earpiece, but for a number of reasons that never worked, so it was abandoned. Frank [Oz, the man behind the mechanical Yoda] was in a pit and the others - sometimes as many as four manipulators - were off at the end of cables and wires. And that whole relationship with Yoda had to be developed without dialogue."

"Frank was able to wear a mask to protect himself from the vapors of the mineral oil that was being sprayed on the set. So did Irvin Kershner. But I couldn't, since I was being photographed, so there was a physical problem, too."

"But when we're at screenings of the film, people ask where Yoda was. He has been accepted by many as a real being," Hamill adds with a smile.

"Of course, I've had the same problem with the dialogue with C-3PO and R2-D2. I could hear muffled dialogue from 3PO, but never anything from R2-D2. Actually, in Empire he is mostly a robot - more than in STAR WARS. Only when he waddles is Kenny [Baker] inside."

"In fact, Kenny got nervous about them perfecting it so completely that he would be out of job. I told him not to worry; he just doesn't understand that it is wonderful for people to read the credits and have that continuity of 'Kenny Baker' as R2-D2."

Hamill expresses more ambivalence about the making of Empire. "It was a physical ordeal the whole time," he recalls, "but I don't really mind that. The sword fight at the end took eight weeks to film, for instance. But I would have liked to do all the stunts myself. I did all but the fall through the window. The insurance company said no to that," he explains.

"During the fight, inching out along a nine-inch ledge, 40 feet above the floor, with all those wind machines going, I fell one time. But I was able to tuck and roll like I was taught during the making of STAR WARS. I did all my stunts in STAR WARS and I was later made a member of the British Stunt Union, not just a belt buckle, but a full membership. I was very excited and proud about that because it isn't lightly given."

"It's a difficult thing when you want to do your own stunts and they won't let you. I still think I could have done it. It was only a 15-foot drop through the window," Hamill says nonchalantly, "but you're going straight back. But who's to say I wouldn't have twisted my leg or something? The only thing is, if I had done that fall, I would have been able to say I'd done 100 percent of the stunts as I did in STAR WARS."

Miss Piggy & Other Diversions

Hamill is asked about the truth of one of the more bizarre rumors concerning the making of Empire: Did Frank Oz really spring Miss Piggy on Luke in the mists of Dagobah?

"He sure did," says Hamill, smiling at the memory. "It was a joke I had asked Frank to do when I first met him. But I wasn't really expecting it when it happened, or I would have asked that the video cameras be put on. As it turned out, there is no film or tape on it at all," he says, clearly disappointed.

"Between the time I first mentioned it and the day it happened, there had been a strike and Frank didn't have easy access to Miss Piggy. But that day he asked me if I would help him off-camera for a while, and I thought, 'He doesn't really need me.' So I had a suspicion. It came on the line, 'Adventure, excitement. A Jedi craves not these things. Follow your feelings.' Anyway, he had a black velvet bag over his arm, and Miss Piggy just popped up in her lavender gown and jewelry, clashing with the set's drabness."

Hamill, who is a diabolical mimic, easily breaks into a perfect imitation of Miss Piggy:

"Feelings? You want feelings? I'll give you feelings, punk. What is this hole? I've been booked into dumps before, but never like this. Get me my agent on the phone!"

"It's like the scene where I've been hurt and Harrison comes in and says, 'Hey, you don't look so bad. In fact, you look strong enough to pull the ears off a gundark.' I reply, 'Thanks to you,' and his line was supposed to be, 'That's two you owe me, Junior.' But, he didn't say it. . . he gave me a little kiss. That had everyone falling down, too, because Han Solo giving Luke a little kissy face is funny. That's the side of Harrison people don't see - he's a very funny guy."

Noting that they will all be back for Revenge of the Jedi, which starts shooting in the fall of 1981, Hamill remembers that at first Harrison had wondered whether he would do number three.

Mysteries Resolved. . .

"It's a beautiful thing that we will all be back again. But one night over dinner, I asked George [Lucas] what he would have done if I'd been killed in the car accident, instead of just breaking my nose. Would somebody else have finished my part?"
"He said, 'No'. There'd have been a script change that would've found a long lost brother or sister, something genetic so that the Force could be with them."

This turn in the conversation starts Hamill thinking on two different subjects - first, his accident, and secondly, the mystery posed in Empire about the possibility of there being someone else who may have the Force with them.

"I had the accident way before STAR WARS came out, but what really happened has been terribly distorted. I broke my nose, that's it! But over the three years I've read accounts about how my face has been reconstructed with plastic surgery, and how I was pulling myself along the highway with one arm looking for help," Hamill says incredulously.

"I've even heard that I drove off a cliff! That was the best one of all," he laughs.

"To set the record straight: it was about six o'clock in the evening. I had a brand new BMW and I was playing the 1812 Overture on the sound system. It had a terrific sound. Also, in a car like that, you can lose sight of how fast you're going - I'd always driven klunky cars. Then suddenly, I realized I was on the wrong freeway, and it might take me an hour and 45 minutes to find my way back. It was a split second decision. I saw my exit ramp three lanes over and I thought I could make it, so I turned the wheel sharply."

"Well, I was going about 70 and the car flipped. I broke my nose and that was all."

. . . and Mysteries Unsolved

On the question of the "other" who might be a hope for the implementation of the Force:

"It didn't sit so well with me at first," Hamill admits. "I told George that people would think I was pulling a $5 million holdout on something that made it necessary, but he said if anyone suggested that, he would tell them it wasn't so."

"I've never asked for exorbitant sums or script approval or anything, so I thought it made me look bad. But George insisted it had always been part of the storyline, though he never told me who it might be. Somebody suggested it might be the Princess, but I think that would be a letdown," Hamill says.

"In any case, she has too much power already. I mean, it's like she's the only woman in the galaxy. If you don't hit it off with her, you become a monk."

Judging from Hamill's remarks here and other things he has said, it seems likely that the story has a life of its own, anyway, and not even George Lucas knows for sure how it will emerge until it is down on paper and then on film.

"At the time STAR WARS was being filmed, I had no idea Darth Vader was my father," Hamill recalls. "I don't think Alec Guinness did, either, because in the scene where I ask him who my father was, he hesitated. Don't know how George made him do that. I didn't hear him saying, 'Maybe you don't really want to tell him,'" Hamill says, marveling at Sir Alec's performance.

"But it's tricky. I remember very early on asking who my parents were and being told that my father and Obi-Wan met Vader on the edge of a volcano and they had a duel. My father and Darth Vader fell into the crater and my father was instantly killed. Vader crawled out horribly scarred, and at that point the Emperor landed and Obi-Wan ran into the forest, never to be seen again."

"Now I wonder if it's true? I mean, there are so many things. For example, remember the Clone Wars? They could have cloned my father. It's all speculation at this point, sort of like who shot [Dallas'] J.R. Ewing."

Evolution & Change

Hamill recalls other events that indicate the story does indeed have a life of its own and is continued to evolve.

"Way back in the early days," he says, "I saw some preproduction sketches and was amazed. My character was cowering behind the Princess. Originally, she was the lead character, trying to save her brother, who was on the Death Star. Then they reversed the roles."

"But on another occasion, I was at the office and I saw an earlier draft of the screenplay than the one I got in 1976. For a while the Obi-Wan and Han Solo characters were the same person. They split them and the age difference came to about 45."

"But changes are inevitable," he continues, "and Darth Vader is a good example of changing a character to please the people. I think, originally, if you follow classic drama, I would have to kill him in the third episode. But now he's a cult figure and, in a way, George may not want to do away with him," Hamill confides.
"Ultimately, the Emperor should be the main bad guy - someone you try to get through nine movies, and in the ninth one you succeed. I don't know who the Emperor is, but I think it is fascinating the way they put him together."

"Originally, I saw a lot of sketches, and I told them how I thought he should be. I thought he should be like the Wizard of Oz. Maybe the images should change so you can't really get a fix on him. Have it like a beautiful woman's lips moving, and that fades to a stop-frame animation creature, to an actor in make-up. So you just can't pin it down."

"The first time I saw the Emperor I was disappointed. I thought he was too human, too ordinary. You figure if Darth Vader bows and says, 'Yes, My Lord,' the guy's got to be a real horror. But it's interesting because the Emperor was an actress, dubbed with a male voice, and money's eyes superimposed."

"There is certainly something strange about him. There has got to be something to the fact that he looks and sounds a bit like Obi Wan."

Perfect Role

In the STAR WARS trilogy, Hamill's role is pivotal and that may be the most surprising aspect of all, since he literally backed into the role of Luke Skywalker.

"I had heard that George Lucas was going to make a science-fiction film," Hamill remembers, "and I asked this other actor who had tried out for a part what it was all about. He thought it was something like Flash Gordon and I figured they'd get Nick Nolte to play the part."

"Vaguely, in the back of my mind, I thought those kind of space-age heroes always had a teenage companion named Bucky or something, but I never really thought of there being a role for me. I just asked my agent if she could arrange for me to go on the set and see some of it being shot, because there would have to be a lot of special effects. At that time I thought it would be done at Universal."

But as things worked out, the script kept evolving and Hamill, until then a science-fiction enthusiast who had never had a role in the genre, found himself in the middle of it.

"And how could I not love every minute of it?" he asks. "It's a great role - perfect for kids. But that's not to say that they should all go out and fight each other with sticks. But I also love the construction. I mean, in the beginning, it's such a clear-cut situation. Darth Vader is so spooky, but the kids can identify with the two robots who are just as scared as they are," Hamill says with insight.

"But it's not real, and the kids are smarter than people imagine. They know they can't be afraid of this animal because they haven't seen it in a zoo. But they are willing to go along with you."

"The two films have cut across all the lines and ages, and I'm proud the American public is so responsive. I mean, they are adaptable, not so locked up into what they expect in a sequel that they can't accept a different film."

On the Force and Future

"Lots of people who didn't like STAR WARS like Empire," Hamill says, "but all the ones who loved STAR WARS seem to like Empire, too. I find my character has matured, and I find now that the spiritual side of the Force is effective in more ways than any of us realized. On one level, it's just a storyline and in that way it can be taken on the surface or as seriously as you wish. It's not really spelled out, though it's dealt with a little bit more in Empire than in STAR WARS... but never heavy-handedly."

"It is never, ever presented as, 'This is it, folks.' For some, it is very religious. For others, magic. Others say it is just the idea of positive thought. Each viewer can take it on his or her own level. As it affects me personally, I don't see it in the genre of levitating boxes or standing on my hands."

Like Harrison Ford, Hamill has discovered that the true enthusiasts are totally engrossed with speculation about the storyline and the Force and all other aspects of the STAR WARS trilogy, but not to the point of obsession.

"Everyone tells me they just want to see the next episode, so get on with it," Hamill says with a smile. He also observes that despite all that has been explained already, the appetite for information about life in the SW galaxy remains unabated. This has led to an unusual explanation of the story into another medium.

"The novelization was based on the script," Hamill explains, "so there is nothing new there. But we've done 13 half-hour radio shows that not only tell all that was in the film, but additional stuff too, the stuff cut from the film."

"The Princess goes to Alderaan and you meet her father. I did it with Tony Daniels, but Harrison was working on Raiders of the Lost Ark for George and Steven Spielberg, so Perry King plays Han Solo and it is a totally different interpretation."

"Carrie [Fisher] didn't want to do it, so Anne Sacks plays the Princess. She was in Dracula on Broadway with Frank Langella. It [the radio show] will be coming on FM stations in March, and I hope it is as much fun to listen to as it was to do."

"It wasn't a money thing, but it's great - my first time with radio drama and probably the first time a lot of kids will hear drama that calls on them to use their imaginations. Another pleasure for me is that I can say my lines and not have to wait 18 months for the visuals to be done."

"I say, 'Look at the size of that,' and you hear this rumble and you know how huge it is. Compare the trash compactor scene that I do [on radio] with my head in a bucket of water, and the one in the film where I get dunked for a shot, go upstairs, take off my stormtrooper outfit, and put on a bathrobe, blow dry my hair, get my makeup back on, get back into my rubber suit and stormtrooper outfit, then go back down for another shot - and repeat the process all day for a week."

"Sounds like hard work? It is," Hamill admits. "And probably the hardest thing I had to do in either film was that last battle scene in the trench, in STAR WARS. We did it in one continuous take and I had to memorize all those technical words and lines - like you'd memorize the Lord's Prayer in Russian."

All too quickly our allotted time with Mark Hamill is gone. This 28-year-old actor, who looks 20, is as enthusiastic and exuberant as a 12-year-old about the STAR WARS saga. He is, in fact, awaiting the evolution of the storyline in The Revenge of the Jedi just as anxiously as is every other 12-year-old in America.

Starlog, October 1980